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Table of Contents
How long should ladder bars be?
The reason everyone uses 32-inch ladder bars is a space consideration. Bars shorter than 32 inches tend to rotate the pinion angle excessively, plus they require a front mount that is very close to the ground. On a long-wheelbase vehicle (like a truck), the 36-inch ladder bar may be the best choice.
How does a 4 link suspension work?
A four-link suspension uses links to locate the axle from moving side to side and front to back, while allowing it to travel up and down and articulate.
Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
There are some definite advantages to running a four-bar linkage, but getting it right takes time, money, and then some more time and money. We hope to give you a realistic overview of a basic four-link rear suspension, but first the pros and cons of building one. The choice is yours, but please consider everything before you begin. The fact remains that a well designed and tested four-link link offers superior power transfer to the ground and a higher ride quality than leaf suspension. The secret is really in the testing part. If you are building a four bar linkage on your rig then be prepared to refine it and tear it apart a few times before it works properly. And during this testing period, we wouldn’t recommend driving it to work at 60mph on the freeway. You might get lucky the first time, but if not, remember that taking apart and rebuilding your truck is fun.
considerations
The biggest question when building a four-bar linkage is how long the links should be and where they should be attached to the frame and axle. This alone determines how the axle pushes the vehicle, whether the rear of the vehicle lifts or buckles when accelerating, whether the rear axle pivots and steers as a result of the wheel buckling movement, and how the body rolls around corners and over obstacles. The desired amount the vehicle performs for each of these things depends on what the vehicle is designed for (going fast, cornering, crawling, articulating) and how the driver wants the vehicle to respond over different terrain. There is no one right way to build a four-link, just like there is no perfect off-roader, but it can be tuned to do certain things better than others.
For most truck owners, an all-round four-link is the wish, but that won’t necessarily be the best rockcrawler, desertjumper, and mudbogger suspension. In addition to all the geometry involved in designing a four-link, there’s also the issue of what actually fits on the vehicle you’re building. Will the framework support the links where you want them? Do the fuel tank, exhaust, cross members and driveshafts all fit the links and allow for proper articulation? Unless you’re building a truck or buggy around the suspension, plan on making some compromises to get the best possible setup. If you like the idea of keeping the leaf springs, we don’t blame you. If you’re up for the challenge, stay tuned for next month as we begin the technical part of the build.
Until then, you’ve got some homework to do. You will need a tape measure, calculator, graph paper and a pencil to round up. Now measure your wheelbase and determine the height of the tires you want to run on your rig. Then, with the truck on level ground, measure the width of the rear axle just inside the brake mounting plates and the height of the frame at various points between the axles along the frame rails. Next, find the height of your pump mount’s top center bolt to the floor. Also, start researching where to buy the materials mentioned below. Just keep in mind that you’ll want to wait until you read part two of this story next month before attacking the problem with the four links under your truck.
See all 9 photos See all 9 photos
Benefits of a four-link suspension over a simple leaf-spring suspension include control of axle wrap, better descent angles, control of axle travel, and reducing the uncontrolled variables of axle movement to just spring rate and shock valving. Additionally, a four-bar linkage can also allow for more suspension travel and articulation, which can provide more traction, although we find too much of either can cause problems. Weight is also a problem for the modern wheeler, as excess weight saps strength. Although a coil spring is lighter than a leaf spring, the weight gains are minimal when you factor in the weight of the links and brackets and everything else.
See all 9 photos See all 9 photos
The main advantage of a leaf spring suspension over a four-link suspension is cost and maintenance. It will take more time and money to remove leaf springs and design, build, test and rebuild your four link link than just fitting a good leaf spring and that’s if you do it yourself. With retail prices ranging from $25 to $75 an hour, a professionally made four-bar linkage will take a serious bite out of your wallet. We also saw some very impressive leaf sprung suspensions that allow for plenty of travel and articulation.
See all 9 photos See all 9 photos
Material is an important factor and concern for strength and safety. Depending on how low you mount them on the axle, your lower links could hit trail obstacles. We therefore recommend no less than 1 3/4″ DOM tubing with 0.25″ wall thickness. If your truck is a full-size or extremely heavy, or if you plan to mount your shocks on the forearms like some race trucks, consider going to an even larger tube size, or even better, the 1 3/4 x .25 with slightly larger piece of pipe. The top links are less likely to be hit by rocks and the like, but we still recommend nothing short of .120 wall, 1 3/4″ DOM tubing.
What is the best rear suspension for drag racing?
- Single-adjustable shocks. Single-adjustable shocks are inexpensive, but you can still maintain damper performance and improve response. …
- Double-adjustable shocks. …
- Triple-Adjustable Shocks.
Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
But once you’ve gotten the most out of what’s under the hood, what’s next?
Successful drag racers recognize that the devil is in the details. Power only gets you so far; It’s the little things that help you launch efficiently and maintain traction that make all the difference and end up taking home the trophy and money.
When you’re struggling with issues like excessive wheelbase and limited weight transfer, you’re missing out on valuable traction and your opponent will catch you at the finish line.
Learn about the top 5 issues affecting the performance of your drag racing suspension.
The best dampeners for drag racing
Navigating the shock options available in the racing world can be confusing territory.
Remember that the shock absorbers you buy should be customized to your car and driving preferences. If you have certain habits that change how your vehicle starts or handles, you need to consider them.
With single, dual and triple adjustable shocks and different price points, which option gives you the most bang for your buck?
How adjustable do your rear shocks need to be?
Only you can answer how adjustable your shocks need to be. A few factors will help you determine what you can afford and what you need.
Easily adjustable shock absorbers
Easily adjustable shocks are inexpensive, but you can still maintain damper performance and improve responsiveness. They fit into many applications by simply swapping out their modular body cap and grommets.
One knob adjusts both the rebound and compression of the shock simultaneously.
Easily adjustable shocks are an excellent option for streetcars, but offer a limited tuning window, and drag applications require a larger tuning window or multiple adjustments to tune performance.
Dual adjustable shock absorbers
Dual-adjustable shocks offer high-horsepower racers the versatility of separate compression and rebound settings. Why is that important?
With more adjustment options, you can adjust the compression and rebound exactly how you want it. For example, with softer shock absorbers in the front, your front end will come up more easily, transferring weight to the back of the car and allowing for better rear wheel traction.
The ability to independently adjust compression and rebound means you can change the speed at which the front of the vehicle returns to its ride height, helping you maintain traction.
The same thought process applies to the back of your car. The rebound drives the tire into the ground quickly and hard. But if your rear shock rebounds too stiff, you limit the amount of weight transferred to your rear tires, resulting in poor traction.
In turn, if the tire is resisting the downward force and wants to bounce back up when driving forward, you can use compression to keep it from bouncing into the fender like a basketball and staying on the surface of the track.
You need different rebound and compression settings to both achieve and tune your suspension.
Your 60-foot time should be consistent. With more adjustments available, you can tune your shocks to be consistent on every run.
Learn more about Are your dual-adjustable shocks really “dual-adjustable”?
Triple adjustable shock absorbers
Triple-adjustable shocks are considered a premium option for drag racing.
Pro Stock, Pro Mod and Top Sportsman teams looking to compete at the highest level can choose the suspension settings. As well as separate compression and rebound settings, they also feature different high- and low-speed compression adjustability, making it easier to tune for launch, lane transitions, and descents.
High-speed adjustment settings help control the chassis at launch and smooth out discrepancies on the track. Slow speed helps generate power between gear changes and during the run.
Triple-adjustable shocks are more suited to riders experienced in diagnosing and tuning suspension dynamics.
Are all shock absorbers the same?
A good damper should be precise, anti-fatigue and durable. Whether you buy and install single, double, or triple adjustable shocks, you are not guaranteed outstanding performance.
Is your damper manufacturer an industry leader at the cutting edge of damping innovation and design? Do the people who design and assemble your dampers have track, shop and problem solving experience?
You can ask these questions to the company you choose to purchase your shock absorbers from to ensure you are making the right choice.
Penske Racing Shocks offer options for every drag racer
These Penske 7500 Coil-Over Bracket Drag Shocks are high quality, American made and can be used in many applications. All Penske shocks are hand built to order specification and can also be customized to be dual adjustable, giving you quality shocks at a fair price.
The 8760 triple-adjustable version completes the set, allowing you to choose based on your unique needs and affordability.
Single and dual-adjustable Penske shocks feature hard-chromed steel shafts that offer strength and low-friction, lightweight and durable aluminum components. They feature up to 40 clicks (more options are available in the triple-adjustable version) of compression and rebound adjustments, allowing fine-tuning for different track conditions.
Let the drag experts help you
Build a long-lasting relationship and leverage the S3 process, which means you get Penske’s support in figuring out the shocks you need, ordering them, setting them up, and continuing to support them into the race season and beyond.
What is ladder bar suspension?
A ladder bar is a type of suspension unit that is installed on 4X4’s to prevent wheel hop on vehicles that have a coil spring. When installed, the ladder bar is attached to the rear of the vehicle at the spring perch and is then attached to the chassis in front of the rear tires.
Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
When installed in an off-road vehicle, a ladder bar is used for better traction. By preventing the rear end of the vehicle and front axle from rotating, the 4X4 becomes more stable in poor traction situations. Installing a ladder bar also enhances the vehicle’s braking system by limiting the slip that a wrapped axle creates.
The length and placement of the ladder bar controls the center of the vehicle. The center point is an imaginary line running from the rear axle to the center of the chassis where the upper and lower control arms intersect. By moving the center point closer to the actual center of the vehicle, traction is improved as there is more downward pressure on the tires. If the ladder bar is placed in a shortened area, shifting the center will reduce vehicle traction. Ladder bar placement is critical when used in an off-road vehicle. Proper placement ensures the suspension provides better traction and reduces slippage.
The ladder bracket got its name from the chosen design. It consists of two long sticks with several small sticks in between. The end result is a design that resembles a ladder. A ladder pole tends to be wider at the back and narrower towards the top. A ladder bar attaches to the existing suspension system with rudder pivots and grade eight bolts. The decision to install a ladder bar can only be made by the owner of the vehicle; You decide for yourself whether a ladder bracket should be installed.
What is a ladder bar suspension?
A ladder bar is a type of suspension unit that is installed on 4X4’s to prevent wheel hop on vehicles that have a coil spring. When installed, the ladder bar is attached to the rear of the vehicle at the spring perch and is then attached to the chassis in front of the rear tires.
Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
When installed in an off-road vehicle, a ladder bar is used for better traction. By preventing the rear end of the vehicle and front axle from rotating, the 4X4 becomes more stable in poor traction situations. Installing a ladder bar also enhances the vehicle’s braking system by limiting the slip that a wrapped axle creates.
The length and placement of the ladder bar controls the center of the vehicle. The center point is an imaginary line running from the rear axle to the center of the chassis where the upper and lower control arms intersect. By moving the center point closer to the actual center of the vehicle, traction is improved as there is more downward pressure on the tires. If the ladder bar is placed in a shortened area, shifting the center will reduce vehicle traction. Ladder bar placement is critical when used in an off-road vehicle. Proper placement ensures the suspension provides better traction and reduces slippage.
The ladder bracket got its name from the chosen design. It consists of two long sticks with several small sticks in between. The end result is a design that resembles a ladder. A ladder pole tends to be wider at the back and narrower towards the top. A ladder bar attaches to the existing suspension system with rudder pivots and grade eight bolts. The decision to install a ladder bar can only be made by the owner of the vehicle; You decide for yourself whether a ladder bracket should be installed.
How does a 4 link suspension work?
A four-link suspension uses links to locate the axle from moving side to side and front to back, while allowing it to travel up and down and articulate.
Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
There are some definite advantages to running a four-bar linkage, but getting it right takes time, money, and then some more time and money. We hope to give you a realistic overview of a basic four-link rear suspension, but first the pros and cons of building one. The choice is yours, but please consider everything before you begin. The fact remains that a well designed and tested four-link link offers superior power transfer to the ground and a higher ride quality than leaf suspension. The secret is really in the testing part. If you are building a four bar linkage on your rig then be prepared to refine it and tear it apart a few times before it works properly. And during this testing period, we wouldn’t recommend driving it to work at 60mph on the freeway. You might get lucky the first time, but if not, remember that taking apart and rebuilding your truck is fun.
considerations
The biggest question when building a four-bar linkage is how long the links should be and where they should be attached to the frame and axle. This alone determines how the axle pushes the vehicle, whether the rear of the vehicle lifts or buckles when accelerating, whether the rear axle pivots and steers as a result of the wheel buckling movement, and how the body rolls around corners and over obstacles. The desired amount the vehicle performs for each of these things depends on what the vehicle is designed for (going fast, cornering, crawling, articulating) and how the driver wants the vehicle to respond over different terrain. There is no one right way to build a four-link, just like there is no perfect off-roader, but it can be tuned to do certain things better than others.
For most truck owners, an all-round four-link is the wish, but that won’t necessarily be the best rockcrawler, desertjumper, and mudbogger suspension. In addition to all the geometry involved in designing a four-link, there’s also the issue of what actually fits on the vehicle you’re building. Will the framework support the links where you want them? Do the fuel tank, exhaust, cross members and driveshafts all fit the links and allow for proper articulation? Unless you’re building a truck or buggy around the suspension, plan on making some compromises to get the best possible setup. If you like the idea of keeping the leaf springs, we don’t blame you. If you’re up for the challenge, stay tuned for next month as we begin the technical part of the build.
Until then, you’ve got some homework to do. You will need a tape measure, calculator, graph paper and a pencil to round up. Now measure your wheelbase and determine the height of the tires you want to run on your rig. Then, with the truck on level ground, measure the width of the rear axle just inside the brake mounting plates and the height of the frame at various points between the axles along the frame rails. Next, find the height of your pump mount’s top center bolt to the floor. Also, start researching where to buy the materials mentioned below. Just keep in mind that you’ll want to wait until you read part two of this story next month before attacking the problem with the four links under your truck.
See all 9 photos See all 9 photos
Benefits of a four-link suspension over a simple leaf-spring suspension include control of axle wrap, better descent angles, control of axle travel, and reducing the uncontrolled variables of axle movement to just spring rate and shock valving. Additionally, a four-bar linkage can also allow for more suspension travel and articulation, which can provide more traction, although we find too much of either can cause problems. Weight is also a problem for the modern wheeler, as excess weight saps strength. Although a coil spring is lighter than a leaf spring, the weight gains are minimal when you factor in the weight of the links and brackets and everything else.
See all 9 photos See all 9 photos
The main advantage of a leaf spring suspension over a four-link suspension is cost and maintenance. It will take more time and money to remove leaf springs and design, build, test and rebuild your four link link than just fitting a good leaf spring and that’s if you do it yourself. With retail prices ranging from $25 to $75 an hour, a professionally made four-bar linkage will take a serious bite out of your wallet. We also saw some very impressive leaf sprung suspensions that allow for plenty of travel and articulation.
See all 9 photos See all 9 photos
Material is an important factor and concern for strength and safety. Depending on how low you mount them on the axle, your lower links could hit trail obstacles. We therefore recommend no less than 1 3/4″ DOM tubing with 0.25″ wall thickness. If your truck is a full-size or extremely heavy, or if you plan to mount your shocks on the forearms like some race trucks, consider going to an even larger tube size, or even better, the 1 3/4 x .25 with slightly larger piece of pipe. The top links are less likely to be hit by rocks and the like, but we still recommend nothing short of .120 wall, 1 3/4″ DOM tubing.
HOW TO – Ladder Bar SUSPENSION SETUP – Drag Racing
See some more details on the topic set up ladder bar suspension for wheelies here:
want more wheelie with ladder bar car – Racingjunk Forums
The instant center length on a ladder bar car is set. (length of bar) Moving it up and down changes how hard you hit the tires. Raising the bar …
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Date Published: 12/25/2021
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Ladder bar adjustment?? To calm down wheelies..
moving the ladder bar’s up will increase the persentage of rise. the car will wheel stand more. it also moves the instant center forward. thats …
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Setting Up Ladder Bar First Time | Yellow Bullet Forums
To properly adjust the suspension you need to do it with out the shocks in place. Make a strut that goes where the shocks mount at the re …
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Ladder bar suspension setup | Non-Turbo Tech questions
My general understanding is that the further the pickup point is pointed down the more “dig” the car has and tends to do wheelies. (pinion angle …
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Conflicting information on ladderbar adjustment need …
… when you put your ladder bar up, the car should wheelie more. … lower settings to offset the shock to the suspension and prolong the …
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3623-Pro-Stock-Wheelie-Bars.pdf – Chassis Engineering
suspension, driveline and components … C/E3623 – 84” Pro Stock Wheelie Bar Kit … With the car set at re height, start mocking up the lower bars.
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Ladder bar Vega going hard left during wheelie
Before measuring for that I’d check all suspension pivot points for bent, binding parts and the rear axle is straight under the car. Concerning …
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Chassis tuning tips to avoid wheel stand – 429-460
I dont want to change to a gle or pull power out or add wheelie bars. … I am trying to crutch the setup for no bars and make it consistent. Thanks,
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want more wheelie with ladder bar car
I’m not a chassis guy just my opinion and that’s all… I don’t think you’ll gain much in wheelies by messing around with ANGLE on a ladder bar car. Not in the way you can with a 4 link as the length of the moment center is fixed… I would focus more on reducing the unsprung weight on the front and playing with the travel and front suspension shock settings to do that to achieve a stronger pitch rotation. If it hooks up well and goes straight, why would you want it to roll more?
Conflicting information on ladderbar adjustment need clarification *debate*
If I am correct in my thinking the car should have more wheelie when you put your ladder bar up. If you drop her, she shouldn’t lift as high.
The way I think of it is to take 50 pounds and put it on the end of a 10 foot stick and try to lift it. The weight is heavier than it would be if it were on a 5ft stick.
But if I look at Dave Morgan’s book and if I’m reading this correctly, the lower the bar the more the front should rise because it shifts the center of moment before the center of gravity. Like a lever… the longer the lever, the more weight you can lift.
If I get a chance I’ll ask Ed tomorrow when I’ll talk to him.
Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk
Post by VegaJohn » Tue 09/11/2018 13:18
I’m having trouble with my Vega going to the left on first start. I fixed the wheelie bar stagger and wheelie bar spring preload issue but this weekend it got worse and I had to pedal when it was pretty good and I banged both sumps on the track. I scaled the car and this is the car with me in it.
Lf733 rf666 lr656 rr565.
picture is car without me
Looking at the numbers it should go right not left I would think. Is it possible that I hit the left hoop so hard that it gets crushed enough that its diameter causes the fast left state? I’m going to pull the ladder bars and look for bent front heims and reinstall them with no bias and start over. The best 60 feet was 1.31 car runs 6.12 @ 111
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