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Table of Contents
Do ballistic dummies have real bones?
Keep in mind that the bones that they use in these models, whether plastic or real (but dead) bone, does not produce a realistic simulation of the movement of blades through live bone. calibrated ballistic gelatin is made to simulate the resistance of the human body in general.
Are ballistic dummies realistic?
While ballistic gel is the closest artificial equivalent to human or animal flesh, it can’t predict exactly how much damage a firearm can do. Ballistic gel is a fairly accurate representation of human and animal muscle and organ density, but it doesn’t represent skin or bones.
What are ballistic dummies used for?
Ballistic gelatin is traditionally a solution of gelatin powder in water. Ballistic gelatin closely simulates the density and viscosity of human and animal muscle tissue, and is used as a standardized medium for testing the terminal performance of firearms ammunition.
Can you melt reuse ballistic gel?
Our ballistic gelatin can be re-melted an average of eight to 10 times, depending on how well you care for it. After the 10th time, the oil in the gel will begin to turn it brown, which is merely an aesthetic change. The gel will stay within calibration even if it is no longer clear.
Ballistic gelatin
Do you make custom blocks of your ballistic gelatin? Yes, we can make your order into any size or shape you require. Please contact one of our sales representatives for pricing via the contact page using the special requests option.
What forms of payment do you accept? We accept business checks, all major credit cards, and wire transfers.
Do you sell on Amazon? Yes, you can see the products we have listed by clicking this link. https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Ballistics/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_14334306011?ie=UTF8&node=14334306011&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Clear+Ballistics
Can I just buy a mold? Yes we sell numerous molds at https://www.clearballistics.com/product-category/molds-and-accesories/mold/
What are your opening times? We are open from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday to Friday. We respond to email and social media inquiries after hours and on weekends.
What is your shop’s web address? It’s pretty simple https://www.clearballistics.com/store/
Can I buy a thousand items? Yes, you can buy any quantity you want, and yes, we offer volume discounts.
Do you do PO’s? Yes we do for business and government purchases. Credit can be paid over 30 days.
Do you have a return policy? Yes, please visit our SHIPPING & RETURNS page https://www.clearballistics.com/shipping-returns/
Where do you ship to? We ship worldwide. All USA shipments are sent via FedEX (You can choose the service speed). For all international shipments and PPOs FedEX, United States Post Office or Sea. For all international orders, call us for a shipping quote.
Do you have gift vouchers? No, we currently do not offer gift vouchers.
What size are your ballistic gelatin blocks? We sell blocks of any size. However, we stock four popular sizes: FBI 16L6Wx6H; air rifle 9Lx4Wx4H; bow block 12Lx14Wx6H; and Sniper Block, these are two of our FBI blocks end to end to make a 32Lx6Wx6H.
I need more information about your company, how can I get it? We would be happy to provide you with further information on Clear Ballistics. You can make an inquiry through our contact page or call us toll-free at (888) 271-0461.
What sizes of standard molds do you sell? See our online shop for details. All molds are ready to ship the following business day.
Are there any restrictions on importing into my country? To our knowledge not.
What is the best way to contact Clear Ballistics? The online inquiry form is the best way to contact us as we respond as quickly as possible, including after hours and weekends. Our phones are manned from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday to Friday.
Can your ballistic gelatin be used for purposes other than ballistic testing? Yes, it can be used in any test where human tissue penetration would need to be tested.
How long does it take for my order to be fulfilled? How long does it take for my order to be fulfilled?
Can I become a reseller or distributor? Yes, we are always looking for our next partner. Simply contact us via our contact page and one of our representatives will get in touch with you.
Can your ballistic gelatin be colored? Yes, it can be colored. We offer numerous colors in our shop.
Do you ship outside of the United States? Absolutely! We are well versed in worldwide shipping.
What kind of discounts do you offer? We offer discounts for law enforcement personnel, ammunition companies (industry), and volume discounts. To get this discount you need to speak to the sales staff or request a call back through our contact page.
Can I get a custom size mold? Yes, just give us a call at (888) 271-0461 or send a request through the contact page using the special request option.
Can I get a tracking number for my order? Yes. Our current primary shipping company is FedEx. When shipping internationally, we use FedEx when possible or USPS otherwise. We prefer traceable packages. For large orders going abroad, we use transport companies.
Where are you? Our sales office and manufacturing facility is located in Fort Smith, Arkansas.
What are the melting temperatures for your ballistic gelatin? Our product begins to melt at the surface at 105 F / 45.5 C. Normal melting temperatures range from 200 F to 270 F / 93.33 C to 132.22 C. The flash point of our ballistic gelatin is 325 F / 162.77 C.
Do you have a Facebook or Twitter account? Yes we do www.facebook.com/clearballistics, @clearballistics
Can I put bones or tiles in the ballistic gelatin? Yes, but the content you fill in must not contain water.
Does your product replace ballistic gelatin used for ballistic data testing? Yes, it is a 100% replacement for the traditional 240A ballistic gelatin. Our product meets FBI and NATO protocol for testing terminal ballistics of human tissue.
Can you document your quality control measures? We can issue a certification letter if your company needs to use our ballistic gelatin products when the FDA requires these types of quality controls.
Can you mold your ballistic gelatin into the shape my business needs? We can mold our ballistic gelatin into any shape and quantity you require.
How many times can I re-melt the ballistic gelatin? Our ballistic gelatin can be remelted eight to ten times on average, depending on how well you take care of it. After the 10th time, the oil in the gel will start to turn brown, which is purely an aesthetic change. The gel stays within calibration even if it is no longer clear.
Does your ballistic gelatin need to be refrigerated? No, all of our Ballistic Gelatin can be stored anywhere as long as the temperature stays below 110F / 37.77C. It must be protected from direct sunlight during long-term storage.
Can I make an artificial head out of ballistic gelatin? Yes, any shape can be made from ballistic gelatin.
What’s less than perfect gelatin? Less than perfect ballistic gelatin is gelatin that has absorbed some type of foreign material during the manufacturing process or is discolored (not 100% clear like glass). It still has the same preforms as all of our other products. Instead of wasting it, we’re selling the less than perfect version at a discounted price.
Why is there a NATO version of a ballistic gelatin? The NATO version of ballistic gelatin exists because all NATO countries use full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets. This is to reduce the exit wound so that the opposing Lot is injured but not killed. Ballistic gelatin has to be much stiffer to stop an FMJ bullet.
What NATO protocol do you follow for calibrating ballistic gelatin? The NATO protocol we follow states that a BB with a standard .177 caliber (4.5mm) steel must meet the following criteria, namely shooting a BB at 590 feet per second plus or minus +/- 15 feet, 10 feet away a gelatin block, and the resting position of the BB is 4.2 cm 4.6 cm (4.4 ± 0.2 cm).
What FBI protocol do you follow for ballistic gelatin calibration? The FBI protocol we follow fires a standard .177 caliber (4.5mm) steel BB from an airgun via a chronograph at 590 feet per second (fps) plus or minus +/- 15 fps into the ballistic gelatin. The penetration of the steel BB must be 8.5 centimeters (cm) plus or minus 1 cm of penetration (2.95 inches to 3.74 inches).
What is the difference between 10% ballistic gelatin and 20% ballistic gelatin? Clear Ballistic Gelatin 10% replaces the 10% solution 240A Ordnance Gelatin Solution calibrated to meet the US FBI protocol for calibrated Ordnance Gelatin. Clear Ballistic Gelatin 20% replaces 20% Solution 240A Gelatin Ordnance Ordnance Solution calibrated to meet NATO calibrated gelatin Ordnance Ordnance Protocol.
Can you document your quality control measures? We can issue a certification letter if your company needs to use our ballistic gelatin products when the FDA requires these types of quality controls.
What kind of quality control measures have you put in place? We carry out batch control for all our products. We also use lot numbers for strict quality control measures and perform ballistic testing to ensure each lot conforms to FBI human tissue ballistic testing protocol. Each order comes with a calibration card showing you how it was calibrated.
Can I melt my block of ballistic gelatin? Yes. Each block of our ballistic gelatin includes full instructions on how to melt the product. Instructions are on your order receipt, which you will receive by email. You can also find the instructions online at Clearballistics.com/instructions.
Does the ballistic gelatin stay clear? Our ballistic gelatin stays clear through the sixth remelt. After that, it begins to take on a yellow tint, gradually darkening with each renewed melting.
Does your product replace ballistic gelatin used for ballistic data testing? Yes, it is a 100% replacement for the traditional 240A ballistic gelatin. Our product meets FBI protocol for testing terminal ballistics of human tissue.
Does your ballistic gelatin contain Artillery 240A gelatin? No, all of our ballistic gelatin is gelatin-free.
Does your ballistic gelatin need to be refrigerated? No, all of our Ballistic Gelatin can be stored anywhere as long as the temperature stays below 110F / 37.77C. It must be protected from direct sunlight during long-term storage.
Will your ballistic gelatin go moldy? No, it does not form mold, mildew or rot.
Does your ballistic gelatin have an odor? No, it is odorless and contains no organic materials.
Is your ballistic gelatin reusable? Yes, our entire range of ballistic gelatin is reusable.
Is your ballistic gelatin 100% clear? Yes, our entire range of ballistic gelatin products are 100% crystal clear.
Is ballistic gel expensive?
Ballistics gel is used by professional forensics teams to simulate the effects of bullet impact on flesh. Professional grade ballistics gel is expensive and difficult to obtain.
Ballistic gelatin
What good is ballistic gel for a spy?
Community Response
Ballistic Gel can be used by spies as building blocks for sniper skins or to craft a vest, showing them how much worse a gunshot wound could have been after being shot. However, you would have to keep in mind that if it gets too hot, it will liquify. In a sniper hideout, this really makes for a difficult cleanup while they cover their tracks. So you should make sure they bring plenty of ice and a fan to cool it back down for easier cleaning. If used as a vest, the melt could make them appear nervous and blow their cover.
How hard is ballistic gel?
Again, you can make this stuff at home and do your own ballistic testing. Seriously. As you can tell, it isn’t hard; it’s literally a recipe with two ingredients. If you’ve made mac and cheese from a box, you can handle making gelatin.
Ballistic gelatin
In most cases, it is a block of solid gelatin used to study the ultimate performance of munitions, including penetration, expansion, expansion voids, and permanent voids created by bullets striking a medium that is not quite solid.
In other words what you would use to test 10mm vs 9mm.
There are also specialty gel products made exclusively for ballistic gels, such as clear ballistic gelatin. They are not the ONLY type of gel useful for this purpose, which we will discuss later.
Make sense?
Okay, now the question is what is ballistic gel made of.
Ballistic gelatin falls into two broad categories: synthetic and natural.
Synthetic ballistic gelatin is made using man-made (i.e. not natural) chemicals, which usually gives you the clear stuff.
Then you have natural ballistic gel that – DUH! – consists of natural ingredients on a plant or animal basis.
You may be wondering what the difference is between ballistic gel and regular food grade gelatin, like what you could use to make fruit tarts, head cheese or something similar. And the answer is…
There is none. You can literally run ballistics tests on the same gelatin in the bake aisle of most grocery stores. Composition doesn’t really matter, which we’ll cover in a moment.
Does ballistics gel expire?
If left alone in a refrigerator, a ballistic gel block will last 7-10 days. Outside of the refrigerator, a block can last a few hours if taken to a cool laboratory setting; if taken outdoors, such as at a shooting range, it must be used immediately.
Ballistic gelatin
How long does ballistic gelatin powder last?
When stored in a cool, dry place, gelatine powder has an unlimited shelf life. Be sure to store your powder in an airtight container to prevent contaminants and moisture from spoiling it.
How long does a ballistic gel block last?
A ballistic gel block will last 7-10 days in the fridge. Outside the refrigerator, a block can last a few hours if placed in a cool laboratory environment; If it is outdoors, e.g. B. at a shooting range, it must be used immediately. In any case, it is best to use a ballistic gel block within 30 minutes of removing it from the refrigerator.
Additional tips
Is ballistic gel waterproof?
Polypropylene has been previously studied for containing ballistics gel for simulator assembly [4]. High-density polypropylene (HDPE), also known as “marine starboard,” is a robust thermoplastic that is often used in the construction of waterproof vessels.
Ballistic gelatin
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What is ballistic soap?
69.00. Made from our calibrated Ballistic Soap, this block comes already cast and ready to use – out of the bucket and shows penetration or damage caused by projectiles, such pistol or rifle rounds to allow the user to compare different ammunition over various ranges.
Ballistic gelatin
Unlike Ballistic Gel, this product expands to leave the temporary cavity intact for further analysis. Just cut open the block after shooting towards the wound to see the cavity. Alternatively, fill the cavity with our casting powder mix to create an impression of the wound for weight/volume comparisons.
For larger caliber projectiles, blocks can be placed back to back (making sure they are touching). This allows the projectile a longer path through the Ballistic Soap.
Size: Large Bucket – 10″L x 8.5″W x 8″H (10″L x 8.5″W x 8″H) approx.
Shipping: This item is made to order. This means it may take longer to get to us. Please email the team with details if you have a deadline.
Weight: 11kg (approx.)
Storage: Your Ballistic Soap Block is packaged in a waterproof and airtight bucket. This is to ensure that the Ballistic Soap is not exposed to high humidity or allowed to dry out during transport or storage. Do not expose to temperatures below 3°C for long periods of time as the product will “sweat”.
Reusability: Your ballistic soap can be used more than once. Simply cut out any projectiles or fragments in the wound trail, remove any dirt or debris from the surface, then cut the block into smaller pieces before placing in a sealed, lidded container to heat. Your ballistic soap can be heated on a stovetop, in an oven, or even in a microwave (for smaller blocks). Heat slowly until all the soap is completely melted (about 60°C). You need to stir the soap from time to time. When it is completely melted, you can pour (pour) it into a mold. Add 1% water by weight to replace the water lost during heating.
Place the Ballistic Soap in a safe, cool place and leave overnight. The block is now ready for use again. Note: The calibration of this product deteriorates after each transformation.
Warning: In use, this block will expand rapidly to form the temporary cavity. Do not place this block on a fragile or brittle surface as the surface could be damaged. Consider using a disposable stand, foam, or cardboard.
What is the difference between 10 and 20 ballistic gel?
This number refers to the density of the ballistic gel. The density of a ballistic gel is determined by how firm the gel is. The higher the density of the gel the more firm the gel will be. 10% and 20% are the standard densities and are referred to by the percentage used to make a gel block.
Ballistic gelatin
The two most common ballistic gel formulas are 10% and 20%, but what’s the difference?
This number refers to the density of the ballistic gel. The density of a ballistic gel is determined by how strong the gel is. The higher the density of the gel, the firmer the gel will be. 10% and 20% are the standard densities and refer to the percentage used to make a gel block. You may have heard of the FBI protocol for ballistic gel. The FBI’s ammunition testing protocol, first introduced after the 1986 Miami shooting, called for the use of 10% ballistic gelatin. So if you’re using 10% ballistic gel, you’re essentially using the same gel that the FBI uses for all of their testing.
However, 20% ballistic gel is much harder as this gel is made to NATO standards. NATO ballistic gelatin needs to be harder and denser as it is only tested with full metal jacketed bullets (FMJ). With a higher ratio of gelatin to water, 20% is much denser and firmer.
Because both densities of ballistic gel mimic the basic properties of muscle tissue, both are commonly used to test different ammunition. Bullets intended for hunting are also extensively tested. So which ones should you use?
The 10% FBI Standard is the go-to resource for the FBI and other law enforcement agencies when testing terminal ballistics. This density is perfect for hobbyists, hunters, or various types of shooters. For most practical applications, the 10% ballistic gel should be sufficient. If you want to test more powerful weapons, especially with full metal jacket bullets, you can opt for 20% ballistic gel. The end result ultimately comes down to personal preference as to which one you decide to use, but remember that the higher the percentage, the firmer the ballistic gel!
If you’ve ever thought about buying ballistic gel to properly test some of your ammo, don’t hesitate. Shooting into a large block of ballistic gel will not only provide you with valuable information, but it is also extremely fun! Both have their own advantages and disadvantages in the battle between 10% and 20% ballistic gel, but both are good choices!
What was the early Greek term for ballistics meaning to throw?
Ballistic comes from the Greek word ballein, meaning to throw.
Ballistic gelatin
The United States has a sizeable military presence there, and the North Koreans seemed keen just to show they could. (“Nice little base you have here in the Northwest Pacific. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.”)
But then came the big controversy over the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, and the North Korean threat seemed to slip off the radar screen, at least for the time being. It was like a mugger going out to attack a couple, but then realizing they were in the middle of such a big fight with each other that he couldn’t get their attention, and just slinked off into the darkness.
I don’t wanna be crazy This is serious stuff. In fact, since the Guam provocation, the North Koreans have fired a missile through Japanese airspace. It flew 1,700 miles and then crashed into the ocean near Hokkaido, Japan’s northernmost island.
This can be a good moment to think about what ballistics really means. After all, “to go ballistic” (an expression dating back to 1981) means to get irrationally angry. As explainer site How Stuff Works puts the question, “What exactly is a ballistic missile anyway?” Is there something about the ballistic part that makes a missile even more dangerous?”
Ballistics comes from the Greek word ballein, meaning to throw. The first sighting of ballistics by lexicographers was in 1753, according to the Online Etymology Dictionary. It meant the “art of throwing great rockets” or the “science of the movement of projectiles.” The term is also used in relation to smaller projectiles: bullets and the like.
The English ball turns out to be a cognate of the ballein – not the round ball that you throw, but the ball that is a dance party. The Online Etymology Dictionary traces it to a Greek word, ballizein, “dance, jump around” or literally “throw one’s body” (“Ancient Greek dancing is very athletic”).
But back to missiles: A ballistic missile is one that has a ballistic trajectory for most of its trajectory, according to How Stuff Works. That means it’s shot high into the sky, and then gravity carries it the rest of the way. Once the rocket burns the fuel that propels it, its direction cannot be changed.
On the other hand, a cruise missile is self-propelled for most of its trajectory. It flies most of the way to its destination in a relatively straight line and at a lower altitude. Ballistic missiles used during World War II follow the large sweeping curves of mathematical equations.
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To my totally inexperienced mind, the cruise missile seems “more advanced”, more dangerous precisely because it’s more maneuverable, but what do I know? Ballistic missiles were a major advance in their day, if that’s the term for something meant to bring death and destruction. They may sound particularly scary because of the metaphorical sense of “going ballistic.”
Let’s hope Kim Jong-un doesn’t do this in person any time soon.
What do you mean by ballistic?
Definition of ballistic
1 : extremely and usually suddenly excited, upset, or angry : wild He went ballistic when he saw the dent in his car. and the crowd goes ballistic. 2 : of or relating to the science of the motion of projectiles in flight.
Ballistic gelatin
Current examples on the web
John Kirby, a White House national security spokesman, said the emerging military partnership should promote a regional air defense system that could protect against Iranian ballistic missiles and drones. — Chris Megerian, ajc, July 11, 2022
The Ukrainian army is firing more and more of its old Soviet-made Tochka ballistic missiles, targeting Russian supply centers, oil depots and airfields up to 75 miles away. – David Axe, Forbes, July 6, 2022
We were even hit by ballistic missiles launched from the Black Sea. – Dominique Soguel, The Christian Science Monitor, July 5, 2022
The Russian Defense Ministry later accused Ukraine of using ballistic missiles to attack the city. — Yuliya Talmazan, NBC News, July 3, 2022
Russia: Moscow threatened to deploy ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons on its border if Sweden and Finland joined NATO and warned that Ukraine’s membership in the military alliance could trigger World War III. — WSJ, June 29, 2022
When Biden visits Riyadh in mid-July, talks are expected to include Gulf security concerns over Iran’s ballistic missiles. — Nadeen Ebrahim, CNN, June 27, 2022
In the 20 years since Vladimir Putin came to power in Russia, the relationship between the military and the Russian Orthodox Church has grown closer, with priests blessing everything from ballistic missiles to submarines. — Ana Faguy, USA TODAY, June 24, 2022
Yesterday missiles, today artillery: If there are heavy drones tomorrow, does that necessarily mean fighter jets and ballistic missiles the day after tomorrow? – David Hambling, Forbes, June 21, 2022
See more
What do you mean by ballistic?
Definition of ballistic
1 : extremely and usually suddenly excited, upset, or angry : wild He went ballistic when he saw the dent in his car. and the crowd goes ballistic. 2 : of or relating to the science of the motion of projectiles in flight.
Ballistic gelatin
Current examples on the web
John Kirby, a White House national security spokesman, said the emerging military partnership should promote a regional air defense system that could protect against Iranian ballistic missiles and drones. — Chris Megerian, ajc, July 11, 2022
The Ukrainian army is firing more and more of its old Soviet-made Tochka ballistic missiles, targeting Russian supply centers, oil depots and airfields up to 75 miles away. – David Axe, Forbes, July 6, 2022
We were even hit by ballistic missiles launched from the Black Sea. – Dominique Soguel, The Christian Science Monitor, July 5, 2022
The Russian Defense Ministry later accused Ukraine of using ballistic missiles to attack the city. — Yuliya Talmazan, NBC News, July 3, 2022
Russia: Moscow threatened to deploy ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons on its border if Sweden and Finland joined NATO and warned that Ukraine’s membership in the military alliance could trigger World War III. — WSJ, June 29, 2022
When Biden visits Riyadh in mid-July, talks are expected to include Gulf security concerns over Iran’s ballistic missiles. — Nadeen Ebrahim, CNN, June 27, 2022
In the 20 years since Vladimir Putin came to power in Russia, the relationship between the military and the Russian Orthodox Church has grown closer, with priests blessing everything from ballistic missiles to submarines. — Ana Faguy, USA TODAY, June 24, 2022
Yesterday missiles, today artillery: If there are heavy drones tomorrow, does that necessarily mean fighter jets and ballistic missiles the day after tomorrow? – David Hambling, Forbes, June 21, 2022
See more
Apocalypse PROOF – Testing Overview
See some more details on the topic ballistics dummy with organs here:
9mm, 10mm, 50ae, .223, 6.5 creedmoor, 50 BMG – YouTube
Team Tier 1 tests out the Ballistic Dummy Lab ballistic gel torsos and potential over-penetration with multiple pistol and rifle calibers.
Source: www.youtube.com
Date Published: 11/3/2021
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Final Ballistic Dummy Drop Version – YouTube
Final Ballistic Dummy Drop Version. 220,173 views220K views. Sep 4, 2020. 3.8K. Dislike. Share. Save. AGCofAmerica. AGCofAmerica.
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Ballistic Dummies – Clear Ballistics
Ballistic Dummies ; 3-D Ballistic Gel Squirrel · $59.98 $29.98 ; 3-D Ballistic Gel Rabbit · $69.99 $36.98 ; 3-D Ballistic Gel Gummy Bear · $79.98 $39.98 ; 3-D …
Source: www.clearballistics.com
Date Published: 8/19/2021
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ballistics gel – Amazon.com
1-48 of 565 results for “ballistics gel”. RESULTS · Clear Ballistics 10% Ballistic Gelatin FBI Block, 16l X 6w X 6h, 10% Gelatin Solution, Synthetic Gelatin.
Source: www.amazon.com
Date Published: 4/3/2022
View: 2279
Ballistic Sim Torso (20% Gel)
Ballistic Sim Torso (20% Gel) … Ballistic Sim Torsos are a complex combination of analogues brought together to prove a simulant that can be used for a number …
Source: www.defensible.co.uk
Date Published: 7/29/2021
View: 3264
Ballistic Dummy Lab (@ballisticdummylab) • Instagram photos …
Ultra clear Ballistic Dummies – Ballistic Dummies with life like Bones and organs. linktr.ee/ballisticdummylab. Highlights’s profile picture. Highlights.
Source: www.instagram.com
Date Published: 3/17/2022
View: 9547
Ballistics Dummy?
author message
Zach Gordon
Joined: 10/07/2008
Main topics: 1
Posts: 252
Location: Vermont. USAJoined: Oct 7, 2008 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:55 Post subject: Ballistics Dummy?
On the Fight Science show, they have these dummy ballistics, they have skeletons with artificial organs that are coated in ballistics gel. You then allow fighters to hit you to determine the effect. Does anyone know how well these map the human body? And could you get them for sword cutting/testing?
Thanks
Z’K, that’s sort of from a Discovery Channel TV show, but before you roll your eyes, hear the question. On the show Fight Science they have these ballistics dummies, they have skeletons with artificial organs covered in ballistics gel. You then allow fighters to hit you to determine the effect. Does anyone know how well these map the human body? And could you get them for sword cutting/testing Thnx
A Spanjer
Joined: April 26, 2009
Posts: 242
Location: USAJoined: Apr 26, 2009 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:18 PM Post subject: Re: Ballistics Dummy? Zach Gordon wrote: “K, this is kind of a Discovery Channel TV show, but before you roll your eyes, hear the question.
On the Fight Science show, they have these dummy ballistics, they have skeletons with artificial organs that are coated in ballistics gel. You then allow fighters to hit you to determine the effect. Does anyone know how well these map the human body? And could you get them for sword cutting/testing?
Thanks
Z
From what I can tell they should be great for test cutting.
The problems, of course, are the damage to the sword from contact with the bone and the cost. I imagine something like that to be quite expensive. Na sir’s na seachain an cath.
Janos Sibinger
Joined: May 31, 2009
Contributions: 50
Location: Hungary/FranceJoined: May 31, 2009 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:44 Post subject:
About the cost of the dummies.. I’ve heard gelatine can be used for such purposes and I think the butcher might be able to help you… I mean some bones
The Fletcher (?) who made my bow warned me to be careful with it. He suggested shooting at a piece of meat to see the power of the bow. That could also be a method, but playing with the food… That was never the norm in my house.
Bottom up!
John greetings! The other problem with these poor dummies is their resistance. If you hit a human – who would do such nasty things – he would try to parry, try to resist, but if your momentum was big enough he would hit back. I’ve given it a lot of thought as I want to test the leftover parts of my shield and I don’t think hitting it on a large tree stump (because of the lack of recoil) would be realistic. About the cost of the dummy.. I’ve heard gelatine can be used for such purposes and I think the butcher might be able to help you… I mean some bones. The Fletcher (?) who made my bow warned me to be careful with it. He suggested shooting at a piece of meat to see the power of the bow. That could also be a method, but playing with the food… That was never the norm in my house. Bottom up! John
Timo Niemen
Joined: May 08, 2009
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book
Posts: 1,504
Location: Brisbane, Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:17 PM Post subject: I don’t think they would be accurate simulators for testing sword action. They’re designed to test the effects of bullets, and they’re pretty good for that. The effects of bullets on living things (from battlefield medicine and experimental work on animals) and dead things (experiments on human bodies and animals) are well known, and ballistic dummies have been designed to surrogate “reproduce” these effects. animal and dead human targets (more uniform and consistent, more standardizable, less paperwork and protest).
But swords do damage by slicing through flesh, while bullets rip their way through at a very different speed.
I would have more faith in simulators designed for swords, by people cutting bodies with swords. Or simulators designed to be comparable to such simulators.
Dan Howard
Joined: 12/08/2004
Main topics: 2
Posts: 3,608
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:01 PM Post subject: They might be useful for testing the action of darts.
Hadrian’s coffin
industry professional
Joined: 04/03/2008
Posts: 400
Location: Oxford, EnglandJoined: Apr 03, 2008 Posted: Tuesday Mar 16, 2010 9:24pm Post subject:
Here is an article on the pros and cons of ballistic gel
Hope this was of some help to you!
Cheers,
Hadrian
p.s. In a recent forensic study of the effects of knives on human flesh, polyurethane, compliant foam, and ballistic soap were used to simulate the reaction of skin, fat, and cartilage, respectively.
p.p.s Here’s some info on human flesh simulation Hello, Here’s an article on the pros and cons of ballistic gel http://nldt2.arl.psu.edu/documents/ballistic_gelatin_report.pdf . I thought you might find it interesting. Again, there is a company that sells many different types of test dummies, but I haven’t seen a “ballistic gel” http://www.dummiesunlimited.com/ I hope this was of use to you! Cheers, Hadrianp.s . In a recent forensic study of the effects of knives on human flesh, polyurethane, compliant foam and ballistic soap were used to simulate the reaction of skin, fat and cartilage respectively ://www.mech.gla.ac.uk/Research /Colloquia/…stractID=2 and http://www.springerlink.com/content/65740761355nl157/ Historia magistra vitae est
Gabriele A. Pini
Joined: 09/02/2008
Posts: 239
Location: Olgiate Comasco, ComoJoined: Sep 02, 2008 Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:24 PM Post subject: Mythbuster recently (probably an old episode for America) used a dummy meat made by cutting pork was sewn over a plastic skeleton. A bit fiddly, but it worked!
Timo Niemen
Joined: May 08, 2009
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Location: Brisbane, AustraliaJoined: May 08, 2009 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:57am Post subject: Hadrian Coffin wrote:
p.p.s Here is some info on human flesh simulation http://www.mech.gla.ac.uk/Research/Colloquia/…stractID=2 and…
The “end product” of this is:
Ankersen, Jesper. Quantifying forces in stab wounds, PhD thesis, University of Glasgow, 1999.
Likewise:
Ankersen J, Birkbeck A, Thomson R, Vanezis P. Puncture and tensile strength of skin simulants. Proceedings of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers – Part H, 1999, 213(6), pp. 493-501.
Ankersen J., Birkbeck, A., Thomson, R., Vanezis, P. The effect of knife blade profile on penetration power in meat simulants. Technical Law and Insurance, 1998, 3, pp. 125-128.
Moving on to the general topic, a good general reference on cutting and penetrating is: Tony Atkins, The Science and Engineering of Cutting, Butterworth-Heinemann, 2009. The Google Books preview will give you a good idea of the content. Don’t look here for specific answers to specific questions. The “end product” of this one is: Ankersen, Jesper. Quantifying the Forces in Stiching Incidents, Dissertation, University of Glasgow, 1999. http://www.mech.gla.ac.uk/Research/Theses/Thesis.html?ThesisID=21 which unfortunately does not seem to be the case www (except for the abstract). Also: Ankersen J., Birkbeck, A., Thomson, R., Vanezis, P. Puncture Resistance and Tension Strength of Skin Simulants. Proceedings of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers – Part H, 1999, 213(6), pp 493-501. Ankersen J, Birkbeck A, Thomson R, Vanezis P. The effect of knife blade profile on penetration force in meat simulants. Technology Law and Insurance, 1998, 3, pp. 125-128. A good general reference on cutting and penetration is further on the general topic: Tony Atkins, The Science and Engineering of Cutting, Butterworth-Heinemann, 2009. The preview on google books give you a good overview of the content. Don’t look here for specific answers to specific questions.
Lee O’Hagan
Joined: September 30, 2003
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Location: Northamptonshire, EnglandJoined: Sep 30, 2003 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:11 PM Post subject:
Tomahawks, katana, viking sword, claymore, ninja to, have all featured in the few shows I’ve seen,
In the UK it is shown on history channel Bravo and Virgin One.
worth a look if you haven’t seen it
I’ve only seen a couple of the martial arts shows but again a very interesting show Deadliest Warrior is a show where they use similar dummies and all sorts of speed and power tech to resemble what you’re asking Tomahawks, Katana, Viking Sword, Claymore ,ninja to, have all been on the history channel in the few shows I’ve seen in the UK, Bravo and Virgin One, worth a look if you haven’t seen just a few of the Watched Fight Science Shows but again very interesting show,
Artis Aboltins
Joined: June 16, 2006
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Joined: Jun 16, 2006 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:27 PM Post subject: Lee O’Hagan wrote: Deadliest warrior is a show where they use Similer dummies and all sorts of speed and power technologies use to resemble what you’re asking.
Tomahawks, katana, viking sword, claymore, ninja to, have all featured in the few shows I’ve seen,
In the UK it is shown on history channel Bravo and Virgin One.
worth a look if you haven’t seen it
I’ve only seen a few of the martial arts shows, but again a very interesting show,
Unfortunately, this is one of the worst shows in terms of historical accuracy that I’ve watched with displeasure. Of course, it’s fun to see someone whack the dummies around with different weapons, but that’s about all the show has to offer.
Lee O’Hagan
Joined: September 30, 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Posts: 529
Location: Northamptonshire, EnglandJoined: Sep 30, 2003 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:40 PM Post subject:
lol i never mentioned historical accuracy,
how many have you seen
It’s a nice change for me not to have to pat Peppa Pig or the postman lately,
It’s just a show, I’ve seen the ballistic dummies used
As I get older, from experience it seems that historical accuracy is more of a personal opinion, or winners’ opinion written in the history books,
today at work i was reliably informed that the british didn’t even have sunshine until the romans gave it to them,
from my roman work colleague, but dear fellow, a lot of time for us heathen uneducated celt types. Artis lol I never mentioned historical accuracy how many have you seen? For me I haven’t had to watch Peppa Pig or postmen pat lately, it’s a nice change of pace, it’s just a show, I had seen the ballistic dummies used, the older I get, from experience it seems that historical Accuracy being more of a personal opinion, or the opinion of winners written in the history books, at work today I was reliably informed that the Brits didn’t even have sunshine until the Romans gave it to them, from my Roman work colleague, but nice guy, lots of time for us heathen uneducated celt types.
Artis Aboltins
Joined: June 16, 2006
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Joined: Jun 16, 2006 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:57 PM Post subject: Lee O’Hagan wrote: Artis,
lol i never mentioned historical accuracy,
how many have you seen
It’s a nice change for me not to have to pat Peppa Pig or the postman lately,
It’s just a show, I’ve seen the ballistic dummies used
As I get older, from experience it seems that historical accuracy is more of a personal opinion, or winners’ opinion written in the history books,
today at work i was reliably informed that the british didn’t even have sunshine until the romans gave it to them,
from my roman work colleague, but dear fellow, a lot of time for us heathen uneducated celt types.
Not to derail the thread – this show has been discussed here before and the responses have been… quite heated, shall we say, because people who see this kind of pseudoscience think they think it’s true. And that in turn means more and more work for serious researchers to convince them otherwise. And for the record, by accuracy I mean the accuracy of the weapons and armor on display, which in most cases was next to non-existent.
Anyhow, getting back to the original purpose of the thread – I think Dan has identified the most appropriate place for such research – the effect of the arrows on the flesh might be worth investigating with such devices.
Douglas S
Joined: February 18, 2004
Posts: 177
Joined: Feb 18, 2004 Posted: Thursday March 18, 2010 3:35 PM Post subject: Honestly, the use of ballistic gel was developed after shooting pig legs to evaluate the bullet design. Gelatin was chosen for balls because of its apparent resemblance to meat. I wouldn’t assume the same applies to swords.
It can be worthwhile for someone to test swords on flesh and on various simulation materials such as ballistic gel and tatami mats. We are waiting for a volunteer.
Keep in mind that the bones they use in these models, whether plastic or real (but dead) bone, do not create a realistic simulation of the movement of blades through living bone.
Marco Cantu
Joined: May 28, 2004
Likes: 1 page
Posts: 116
Joined: May 28, 2004 Posted: Thursday March 18, 2010 4:15 PM Post subject: Calibrated ballistic gelatin is manufactured to simulate the resistance of the human body in general. It’s not specifically made for bullets…
Douglas S
Joined: February 18, 2004
Posts: 177
Joined: Feb 18, 2004 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:08 AM Post subject: Marcos Cantu wrote: Calibrated ballistic gelatin is manufactured to simulate the resistance of the human body in general. It’s not specifically made for bullets…
How is it used by industry aside from testing bullets? Source?
Timo Niemen
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Location: Brisbane, Australia Joined: May 08, 2009 Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:56 PM Post subject: Ballistic gelatin consists mainly of water held together by a network of proteins.
Human tissue is mostly water held together by a network of proteins.
Sounds like it should be easy to fit? One problem is the inhomogeneity of the tissue. (As mentioned in the “Ballistic Gelatin” report linked earlier in the thread.
But is that a big problem? In a sword’s natural intended target, how much of the cut resistance is due to the soft wet tissue (i.e. what is represented by ballistic gelatin)? How much is skin and bones, maybe tendons? How much is due on clothes? As long as it’s easy to cut and keeps its shape, it might be suitable as a target to replace soft tissue, although it’s not a very good soft tissue simulant in terms of cutting – a small contribution to the whole process doesn’t need to be modeled very accurately .
I think the overall mechanical properties of the whole block are important – the inertia and resiliency it provides as a carrier for the skin sim and cloth/armor covering. The inertial part is simple – just mostly water (a bottle of water, a water balloon, a watermelon, a wet sponge would all do) and has similar elasticity (and at the relevant strain rates). I don’t know how well BG does this; maybe not as good as it is matched to the viscosity of tissue. Given that we can’t represent the elasticity of muscles with a single number (poke a relaxed muscle, then poke a tight muscle), this might be a bit tricky. Matching dead meat does not mean matching live meat. But at this point it becomes important to model the whole body and its movement when hit.
So it’s really quite difficult to get it right. Making it “good enough” is a lot easier. Maybe that would be a different mix than the usual BG. This might not give the right amount of cutting resistance, but if it’s still easy to cut then it might not matter.
hp I spoke to a WMA novice about cutting and pointed out how easy it is to cut soft tissue. Just think how easy it is to cut meat with a sharp knife while cooking, I say to capitalize on our experience of cutting soft, wet tissue. But this person (an adult – young, but still an adult!) had never cut meat with a knife, so had no experience.
Chris Mills
Joined: 06/03/2010
Posts: 2
Location: Simi ValleyJoined: Jun 3, 2010 Posted: Thu Jun 3, 2010 12:18 AM Post subject: Ballistics Dummy So we produce the ballistics gel dummies at the Silver Shamrock Lab. During Season 2 of Deadliest Warrior, we started changing the formulas of the gel depending on the test. For weapons we went with the standard formula, but for swords I made it a little harder. While this is still only a rough approximation of what could happen, we at least tried to make the tests more accurate.
The only downside for the Ballistics Dummies is the lack of strings and Muselton. They tend to tear and fall apart more easily than live flesh.
Christopher H
Joined: March 06, 2008
Posts: 79
Joined: Mar 06, 2008 Posted: Thursday Jun 3, 2010 1:05 AM Post subject: I think muscle tone is a very important aspect… Gel is a passive structure while muscles can change their properties through contraction … that would be interesting to see how much resistance changes with contraction … has anyone else done the frog leg experiment in physiology?
Eric Fuck
Joined: September 16, 2009
Posts: 78
Location: CaliforniaJoined: Sep 16, 2009 Posted: Fri Jun 4, 2010 2:49 PM Post subject: Re: Ballistics Dummy Chris Mills wrote: How we produce the Ballistics Gel Dummies at the Silver Shamrock Lab. During Season 2 of Deadliest Warrior, we started changing the formulas of the gel depending on the test. For weapons we went with the standard formula, but for swords I made it a little harder. While this is still only a rough approximation of what could happen, we at least tried to make the tests more accurate.
The only downside for the Ballistics Dummies is the lack of strings and Muselton. They tend to tear and fall apart more easily than live flesh.
Is that right? YOU do the ballistic gel dummies at the Silver Shamrock Lab? Is there a chance to sell them? Cheers,
Eric Fuck
Davenriche European Martial Arts Schoole
www.swordfightingschool.com Cheers, Eric FickDavenriche European Martial Artes Schoole
Chris Mills
Joined: 06/03/2010
Posts: 2
Location: Simi ValleyJoined: Jun 03, 2010 Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:54 PM Post subject: Yes, at Silver Shamrock Lab we sell the Ballistic Gel Dummies.
Discover Strengths and Limitations of Ballistic Gel at Wholesale Supplier Custom Collagen
Ballistic gel mimics certain properties of flesh better than any other substance. In fact, Custom Collagen ballistic gel is so finely tuned to mimic the density of human organs that it’s even used by hospitals and universities to calibrate ultrasound machines.
So if you shoot a block of ballistic gel you should be able to see how much damage would have been done to a human or animal target… right?
Well, not exactly
Let’s examine some of the strengths and limitations of ballistic gel.
Ballistic Gel Limitations
While ballistic gel is the closest artificial equivalent to human or animal flesh, it cannot accurately predict how much damage a firearm can inflict. Ballistic gel is a fairly accurate representation of human and animal muscle and organ density, but it does not represent skin or bone. Therefore, the gelatin tears more easily than the skin, leading to a margin of error that you must always take into account.
Furthermore, no two target scenarios will be exactly the same in real life. This fact alone makes it impossible for ballistic gel or other test substances to predict a bullet’s performance with 100 percent certainty.
Ballistic gel strengths
As mentioned above, ballistic gel mimics human and animal flesh better than any other substance in existence. That makes it the best choice for getting a rough idea of how a bullet will behave when penetrating a flesh-like substance. Additionally, the clear gelatin makes it easy to see how a bullet penetrated, if it shattered, and if it caused cavitation – just by looking.
The other benefit of ballistic gel in an experimental setting is that it limits the variables. It makes testing easily repeatable and more controlled. A controlled test setting is key to comparing bullets to each other. In particular, you can compare the penetrating power, the residual weight and the expansion of the bullets under the same conditions. Ballistic gel makes these controlled conditions possible.
Ballistic gelatin
Photograph of synthetic ballistic gelatin showing terminal fragmentation of a .243 projectile.
Ballistic Gelatin is a test medium designed to simulate the effects of gunshot wounds in animal muscle tissue. It was developed and improved by Martin Fackler and others in the field of wound ballistics. It is calibrated to match porcine muscle, which is itself ballistically similar to human muscle tissue.[1][2][3]
Ballistic gelatin is traditionally a solution of gelatin powder in water. Ballistic gelatin accurately simulates the density and viscosity of human and animal muscle tissue and is used as a standardized medium for testing the final performance of firearm ammunition. While ballistic gelatin doesn’t model the tensile strength of muscle or body structures like skin and bone, it works fairly well as an approximation of tissue and offers similar performance for most ballistic tests. however, its usefulness as a model for very low velocity projectiles may be limited. Ballistic gelatin is used in place of real muscle tissue because the gelatin’s properties can be carefully controlled, allowing for a consistent and reliable comparison of terminal ballistics.
history [edit]
The FBI instituted its own testing protocol in December 1988 in response to the 1986 Miami shooting, which quickly became popular with US law enforcement.
preparation [edit]
Gelatin formula[ edit ]
The most commonly used formula is a 10% FBI-style [according to who?] ballistic gelatin, which is made by dissolving one part 250 Bloom Type A gelatin in nine parts warm water (by mass) and that Mixing water when pouring will mix the powdered gelatin. It is refrigerated to 4 °C (39 °F). [citation needed] The older NATO formula specifies a 20% solution chilled to 10 °C (50 °F), but this solution costs more to make because it uses twice the amount of gelatin.
In any case, a 1988 research paper by Martin Fackler recommends not heating the water above 40 °C (104 °F) as this can cause a significant change in ballistic performance.[4] However, this result does not seem to be reproduced in a later study.[5]
Calibration [ edit ]
To ensure accurate results, the gelatin block is calibrated immediately prior to use by firing a standard .177 caliber (4.5 mm) steel BB from an air pistol via a pistol chronograph into the gelatin and measuring the depth of penetration. While the exact calibration methods vary slightly, the calibration method used by the National Firearms Unit of the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service is fairly typical. It requires a velocity of 183 ± 3 m/s (600 ± 10 ft/s) and a BB penetration of between 8.3 and 9.5 cm (3.3–3.7 in).
In his book Bullet Penetration, ballistics expert Duncan MacPherson describes a method that can be used to compensate for ballistic gelatin that gives BB penetration that is offset by several centimeters (up to two inches) in either direction. Figure 5-2 of MacPherson, Velocity Variation Correction of Measured BB Depth of Penetration can be used to make corrections to the BB penetration depth when the measured BB velocity is within ±10 m/s of 180 m/s. This method can also be used to compensate for errors within the allowable tolerance and to normalize the results of various tests, since it is common to record the exact depth of penetration of the calibration BB.[7]
Synthetic Alternative[ edit ]
Natural gelatin ballistic gels are typically clear tan in color and are generally not reusable. The more expensive synthetic substitutes are developed to simulate the ballistic properties of natural gelatin while initially being colorless and clear. Some synthetic gels are also reusable because they can be melted and reformed without affecting the ballistic properties of the gels.
Used[edit]
Because ballistic gelatin mimics the properties of muscle tissue quite well,[8] it is the preferred medium (over real pig carcasses) for comparing the final performance of various expanding ammunition, such as hollow-point and soft-point bullets. These bullets use the hydraulic pressure of the tissue or gelatin to expand in diameter, limiting penetration and increasing tissue damage along the way. While the Hague Convention restricts the use of such munitions in warfare, they are commonly used by police and civilians in defensive arms, and by police sniper and hostage rescue teams, where rapid target disabling and minimal risk of over-penetration are required to reduce collateral damage.
Hunting bullets are also commonly tested in ballistic gelatin. A bullet intended for hunting small vermin, such as prairie dogs, must expand very quickly to have an effect before leaving the target and must operate at higher velocities due to the use of lighter bullets in the cartridges. The same rapidly expanding bullet used on prairie dogs would be considered inhumane for use on medium-sized wildlife such as white-tailed deer, where deeper penetration is required to reach vital organs and ensure a quick kill.
On television, the MythBusters team sometimes used ballistic gel to bust myths, but not necessarily with bullets, including the exploding implants myth, the deadly card toss, and the ceiling fan decapitation. They sometimes put real bones (human or pig) or synthetic bones in the gel to simulate fractures as well.
The US television show Forged in Fire is also known for using ballistic gelatin, often making entire human torsos and heads with simulated bones, blood, organs, and viscera cast in the gel. Various bladed weapons are then tested on the gel torso to simulate and record the destructive effects of the weapons on a real human body.
See also[edit]
References[edit]
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